People who support affirmative action in other areas are often very opposed to it in sports. It’s an odd contradiction that I wish more people would think about. Because I think the reason is that people see sports as something where ability really matters, which means that they see college (or diversity hiring in business) as something where ability does not matter. And that’s a very strange way to look at college. Does that mean that most people see college as nothing more than a symbolic achievement? Where the achievement is getting accepted, not graduating? It’s like they don’t see college as a competitive learning environment. Same for diversity hiring in private industry or government positions as well.
The type of audience also matters a lot. Sports fans tend to be more conservative and male on average, and men statistically value ability over inclusion. Women on the other hand are more likely to favor policies that make sure everyone is included.
"Along parallel lines, a Knight Foundation survey in 2017 of 3,014 college students asked: “If you had to choose, which do you think is more important, a diverse and inclusive society or protecting free speech rights.” Male students preferred protecting free speech over an inclusive and diverse society by a decisive 61 to 39. Female students took the opposite position, favoring an inclusive, diverse society over free speech by 64 to 35.
We’re seeing two sets of forces that can pull in opposite directions. One set comprises the common interests of men on the one hand and women on the other. Men tend to be more obsessed with status and dominance and are more willing to take risks to compete for them; women are more likely to prize health and safety and to reduce conflict."
In short, supporting affirmative action is a very female impulse, which runs counter to the testosterone-soaked macho field of pro sports.
Often absent from these conversations are matters of cultural preferences, which I think maybe we’re not supposed to talk about anymore...? In the same way that black Americans are overrepresented in athletics, Asian Americans are overrepresented in a field I hold dear, the symphony orchestra. From this I merely conclude that the parents of children in these respective groups have different ideas about what works for their kids. This is sort of a similar argument to the one about why men are more often engineers than women, I suppose.
I would be curious to know the participation rates in youth sports among Asian American kids. And I’d be equally curious to know the participation rates in youth orchestras among black American kids.
Even within sports, too. Many Black kids just don’t want to play hockey. Or they do, but would rather play basketball or football. Not every profession has to have a proportional racial ratio.
To your very point, it’s interesting to me to observe that the overwhelming majority of Asian American players in orchestras are found in the strings (particularly violin) and woodwinds and far less so in the brass and percussion.
Great points, Peng. Well done and laser focused as usual.
A few random thoughts....
First the NHL has several current great players with Asian heritages. Nick Suzuki, Matt Dumba, Robo Robertson, Jason Siegenthaler and Kailer Yamamoto all have Asian parents. Nice to have a professional sports league where players need talent, not freakish size.
Second, yes, the left is ruining institutions such as the elite schools by erasing merit - no surprise there. Leading to, Third: the erection of racial hierarchies by the progressive left is hardly a surprise. Orwell predicted it in Animal House - "all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." What does a progressive Democrat touch that isn't turned to merde?
Of course you're correct. Too early in the morning for me and still oddly affected by the mere hour switch to daylight time. But Belushi was not unlike Napoleon the Pig, although far more lovable.
I am surprised no mention was made of Ichiro Suzuki, who played baseball for Seattle's team for 28 seasons. He was consistently one of the most popular players on the team. I'm not even a sports fan yet the craze for Ichiro was repeatedly evident throughout Seattle. Baseball is one of those sports that - like hockey - requires skill rather than freakish size as you put it.
The difference between these Ichiro and Jeremy Lin was that Lin is an American. Foreign players usually are selected from the best of the best in their home countries, so people don't underestimate them when they come to America. But Lin was constantly doubted and underestimated here, which made his rise such a success story.
And yeah, baseball seems to be the only sport where Asians have had a massive influence. Hideo Nomo, Ichiro Suzuki, Chien-Ming Wang, Shohei Ohtani...
And Ichiro's reach was hampered by the fact that he played on the Mariners and not a big market team. Didn't stop Griffey Jr. from being a major phenomenon though.
One of the best at bats ever was Ichiro vs Clement, in Seattle, Godzilla vs Mothra. No matter how hard Clement threw the ball or where he put it, Ichiro got a bat on it. Those sitting on the third base side were ducking left and right. I'm surprised they had enough baseballs to finish the at bat.
Well said. There are also cultural forces at play. My brother in law coached a little league baseball team. Majority of kids from neighborhood of engineers working for semiconductor chip mfg.
Smart men and women having smart progeny. But not particularly coordinated. Sad thing is how those parents would scream at their kids for not doing well on field. Sorry parents. You chose an academic excellence path. Generations of a family turning out violin prodigies should not ( and most do not) expect the child to also bat .333 and hit 95 miles fast balls on the inside corner of the plate.
The difference between these guys and Jeremy Lin was that Lin is an American, while the others are from Asia. Foreign players usually are selected from the best of the best in their home countries, so people don't underestimate them when they come to America. But Lin was constantly doubted and underestimated here, which made his rise such a success story.
I wish baseball was more popular in America. Ohtani is already considered one of the great players of all time, if not the greatest. But the cultural zeitgeist has moved away from baseball. Football and basketball are just much more popular.
People who support affirmative action in other areas are often very opposed to it in sports. It’s an odd contradiction that I wish more people would think about. Because I think the reason is that people see sports as something where ability really matters, which means that they see college (or diversity hiring in business) as something where ability does not matter. And that’s a very strange way to look at college. Does that mean that most people see college as nothing more than a symbolic achievement? Where the achievement is getting accepted, not graduating? It’s like they don’t see college as a competitive learning environment. Same for diversity hiring in private industry or government positions as well.
The type of audience also matters a lot. Sports fans tend to be more conservative and male on average, and men statistically value ability over inclusion. Women on the other hand are more likely to favor policies that make sure everyone is included.
Here's a good article about it: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/12/opinion/gender-gap-politics.html
"Along parallel lines, a Knight Foundation survey in 2017 of 3,014 college students asked: “If you had to choose, which do you think is more important, a diverse and inclusive society or protecting free speech rights.” Male students preferred protecting free speech over an inclusive and diverse society by a decisive 61 to 39. Female students took the opposite position, favoring an inclusive, diverse society over free speech by 64 to 35.
We’re seeing two sets of forces that can pull in opposite directions. One set comprises the common interests of men on the one hand and women on the other. Men tend to be more obsessed with status and dominance and are more willing to take risks to compete for them; women are more likely to prize health and safety and to reduce conflict."
In short, supporting affirmative action is a very female impulse, which runs counter to the testosterone-soaked macho field of pro sports.
I very much agree with your take.
Often absent from these conversations are matters of cultural preferences, which I think maybe we’re not supposed to talk about anymore...? In the same way that black Americans are overrepresented in athletics, Asian Americans are overrepresented in a field I hold dear, the symphony orchestra. From this I merely conclude that the parents of children in these respective groups have different ideas about what works for their kids. This is sort of a similar argument to the one about why men are more often engineers than women, I suppose.
I would be curious to know the participation rates in youth sports among Asian American kids. And I’d be equally curious to know the participation rates in youth orchestras among black American kids.
Even within sports, too. Many Black kids just don’t want to play hockey. Or they do, but would rather play basketball or football. Not every profession has to have a proportional racial ratio.
To your very point, it’s interesting to me to observe that the overwhelming majority of Asian American players in orchestras are found in the strings (particularly violin) and woodwinds and far less so in the brass and percussion.
Linsanity was a great moment for ALL NYers, not just Asians. Everyone loves an underdog story and JLin embodied that.
Most fun sports era in my life, a real NY cultural touch point moment for all of us.
Linsanity was wild. Everywhere I went, Lin’s face was plastered everywhere.
Great points, Peng. Well done and laser focused as usual.
A few random thoughts....
First the NHL has several current great players with Asian heritages. Nick Suzuki, Matt Dumba, Robo Robertson, Jason Siegenthaler and Kailer Yamamoto all have Asian parents. Nice to have a professional sports league where players need talent, not freakish size.
Second, yes, the left is ruining institutions such as the elite schools by erasing merit - no surprise there. Leading to, Third: the erection of racial hierarchies by the progressive left is hardly a surprise. Orwell predicted it in Animal House - "all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." What does a progressive Democrat touch that isn't turned to merde?
Animal Farm, not Animal House. Completely different stories. :-)
I'd love to see an Orwellian remake of Animal House.
Of course you're correct. Too early in the morning for me and still oddly affected by the mere hour switch to daylight time. But Belushi was not unlike Napoleon the Pig, although far more lovable.
Made my snort coffee when I hit Animal House. Great slip.
Thanks. Good crew here. Gently correcting.
I am surprised no mention was made of Ichiro Suzuki, who played baseball for Seattle's team for 28 seasons. He was consistently one of the most popular players on the team. I'm not even a sports fan yet the craze for Ichiro was repeatedly evident throughout Seattle. Baseball is one of those sports that - like hockey - requires skill rather than freakish size as you put it.
The difference between these Ichiro and Jeremy Lin was that Lin is an American. Foreign players usually are selected from the best of the best in their home countries, so people don't underestimate them when they come to America. But Lin was constantly doubted and underestimated here, which made his rise such a success story.
And yeah, baseball seems to be the only sport where Asians have had a massive influence. Hideo Nomo, Ichiro Suzuki, Chien-Ming Wang, Shohei Ohtani...
And Ichiro's reach was hampered by the fact that he played on the Mariners and not a big market team. Didn't stop Griffey Jr. from being a major phenomenon though.
One of the best at bats ever was Ichiro vs Clement, in Seattle, Godzilla vs Mothra. No matter how hard Clement threw the ball or where he put it, Ichiro got a bat on it. Those sitting on the third base side were ducking left and right. I'm surprised they had enough baseballs to finish the at bat.
Well said. There are also cultural forces at play. My brother in law coached a little league baseball team. Majority of kids from neighborhood of engineers working for semiconductor chip mfg.
Smart men and women having smart progeny. But not particularly coordinated. Sad thing is how those parents would scream at their kids for not doing well on field. Sorry parents. You chose an academic excellence path. Generations of a family turning out violin prodigies should not ( and most do not) expect the child to also bat .333 and hit 95 miles fast balls on the inside corner of the plate.
I’ve always wondered why it is that blacks and Hispanics do not find affirmative action insulting.
The ones that can get in without it do find it insulting. But the ones that can’t get in otherwise see it as a necessity.
Lia Thomas?
The difference between these guys and Jeremy Lin was that Lin is an American, while the others are from Asia. Foreign players usually are selected from the best of the best in their home countries, so people don't underestimate them when they come to America. But Lin was constantly doubted and underestimated here, which made his rise such a success story.
I wish baseball was more popular in America. Ohtani is already considered one of the great players of all time, if not the greatest. But the cultural zeitgeist has moved away from baseball. Football and basketball are just much more popular.